TOP GUN!

RE: TOP GUN!

http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/gw2.jpg

GW Bush spent almost six years in the Air National Guard. He went through pilot training and flew the F-102 All-Weather Fighter Interceptor for with his unit Texas ANG Unit. The F-102 was one of the most difficult fighters to master as a pilot because of the type mission profile flown. He spent the last part of his six year commitment attached to the Alabama Air National Guard for political reasons in his civilian job. This is not anything unusual as we have a state Governor and a US Senator assigned to reserve units here at Charleston AFB SC. I’ve seen many Air Force and Air National Guardsman attached to other units in order to attend drills and finish out their services commitment both because of temporary job transfers. I used to fly with a Congressman who was also a C-141 Pilot. After he got elected he transferred to a unit near Washington DC to do his drills and gave up flying.

Being a Reservist or Guardsmen in the US Military does not constitute “draft dodging”. Unlike going to Canada or overseas when war is looming, these people are subject to call-up and deploy to fight in wars. Probably 40% of the Air Force units in the last two Gulf Wars were Reservist or Guardsman.

I have a close friend who “dodged” the draft in 1968 and joined his home town Army National Guard Unit. One year later he was “activated” and spent six-months in Viet Nam when his home town Guard Artillery unit was sent there. Even some members of Bush's Texas ANG unit served in Viet Nam from 1968 to 1970 flying the F-102's.

It’s kind of strange that Bush catches more “crap” for dodging the draft than Clinton did who actually DID. Many country’s reserves are merely an extension of their local civil defense and really don’t have a wartime tasking while in the United States, they are some of the first to deploy in times of crisis.




** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING...
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"It’s kind of strange that Bush catches more “crap” for dodging the draft than Clinton who actually DID."

Bill, you just don't understand. When you are a liberal, what you say is far more important than what you do!

And besides, Bush is an idiot to all these people because of his GPA, his degree, the fact that he had a life in college and partied a little, was from a successful family, etc. etc. etc. A guy like Clinton, well, he was a Rhode Scholar and hasn't had a real job in his life.

Conservatives are aways held to a higher standard. It is that double-standard that really grates most people the wrong way.

Too bad Moe didn't enlighten us on what's wrong. I was looking forward to the lecture.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"It’s kind of strange that Bush catches more “crap” for dodging the draft than Clinton who actually DID."

Bill, you just don't understand. When you are a liberal, what you say is far more important than what you do!

And besides, Bush is an idiot to all these people because of his GPA, his degree, the fact that he had a life in college and partied a little, was from a successful family, etc. etc. etc. A guy like Clinton, well, he was a Rhode Scholar and hasn't had a real job in his life.

Conservatives are aways held to a higher standard. It is that double-standard that really grates most people the wrong way.

Too bad Moe didn't enlighten us on what's wrong. I was looking forward to the lecture.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
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I’m so sorry, I will, I promise, let me get my 2 exams over with, and promise to complete typing my post... I have some of it typed... but the problem is, some of the problem might offend some VIP members on the board.. So I’m still thinking about it. I would however, love to discuss it with you privately though on AIM or something.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Trix, I wish it was. But it happens all too often for it not to be an accurate generalization. Conservatives are always taken to task for even the most mundane things.

Moe, I totally understand. I just want to hear another viewpoint. Just prodding you to get a response. I typed up a beauty two days ago and lost it. I am now typing these responses in Word first and then pasting it in so I don't lose them. Very frustrating. Looking forward to seeing yours. Make it good. You can always PM me or email me directly. PM's as you know go through the board.
Good luck with the tests.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Bill,

I never said Bush was a draft dodger. I said he went AWOL from his National Guard unit for a year. There is a difference, no?
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Bill,

I never said Bush was a draft dodger. I said he went AWOL from his National Guard unit for a year. There is a difference, no?
Click to expand...

And you didn't read what Last Mark and I said either, you can't be AWOL unless you're on Active Duty. It's possible to have a "good year" in the Guard or Reserves by serving as few as 26 days in one year. It is not unusual to be excused or rescheduled to perform your military duty in groups or blocks of days instead of monthly weekend drills with OTHER units. It's not unusual for senior grade commanders not be aware of lower ranking individuals, like a 1st Lt, to be performing duty with his unit since this is taking care of at lower administrative levels or for supervisors to not write evaluations for people who aren’t around or that they are familiar with.

During the first Gulf War I was deployed 11 months and “my” stateside commander did not write a performance evaluation on me either since I wasn’t there and he didn’t know what I did so I have a gap in my performance evaluations (OPR or APR) for that period also, however since I was a career minded member it was important to me so I had a Major I was deployed with write a Letter of Evaluation (LOE) to cover that period of time for me. Many people, who don’t plan on making the military a career, don’t care and don’t get evaluations written.

I have "visited" the websites that have copies of Bush’s military records, including duties performed and discharge papers. To anybody who is familiar with the military including the Guard and Reserve, everything there is normal. In the "down-sizing" of the Post-Viet Nam military in 1973-75 EVERYBODY who wanted out could be discharged six months early.

I’m sure Oliver Stone or Michael Moore could make an “outstanding dramatic historical novel” about his life and make it exciting based on their slanted version and have people quote it for years to come. However, if they were truthful, he’s was very normal in his duties although flying an F-102 towards the end of its active career could be pretty exciting in itself.


** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING...
 
RE: TOP GUN!

>>Well as Commander In Chief he's definately been a military hero. Just look at how people in the military accept him

errrr...Like YEAH, military response to any situation is "Shoot first and ask question later!" No Duh they will like him. IQ doesnt run very high on TOP (no offense!) :p
 
RE: TOP GUN!

>>No Duh they will like him. IQ doesnt run very high on TOP (no offense!)
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What is with you intellectual guys? Oh, look at me. I went to college, therefore, I am smarter than you. I'll take a guy with street-smarts over a book-smart guy anyday. Anybody can read a book and recite from memory if they choose to waste their time doing so. A good eductation will only take you so far. The rest has to be learned on the "streets", and I don't mean the street, either. Real life experiences are far more valuable and important than was is gained out of a book, in my book.

With Clinton/Gore in office, we would already have a 9/11, a 12/11, a 3/11. Yes, Scott and Trixie, I can say this with a straight face. If you (not you personally) don't stand up for what is right, expect it to keep on happening, again and again. At least, right now, the bad guys are thinking twice about it, or they are aware that the payback will be coming. Before, they had nothing to worry about.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Well, Dethdrone, a comment of (no offense!) is really irrelevant when what you say is offensive, and is an insult to a lot of good people.

But Bryan, what I don't like is how you and others can make assumptions about what Clinton/Gore would be doing right now. To me that's not a fair fight. Either look at the facts or don't, but to assume the way someone would act in a situation they have not been put in before is not reasonable and is pure speculation.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

When you are a liberal, what you say is far more important than what you do!
Bryan
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Statements like this are why conservatives are labeled prejudiced, bigoted, closed-minded. Lumping half the country into a group and assiging attributes to all of them collectively... this is a good example of the pervasive conservative racism, anti-semitism and bigotry of all kinds. You are all that way!


haha! I bet there's some hot collars out there now :p it's just a little of your own medicine for ya. How's that taste? Or is it over the line for me to over-generalize conservatives as a group and insult them, collectively? It seems to be acceptable to do it to the liberals.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I know it is not fair and I really don't like taking the jabs either. I'm trying to make a point.

I am just convinced: A) Iraq would be selling weapons that would be turned on us. B) Iraq's people would continue to suffer. C) Saddam would become more powerful and dangerous in the region. D) Attacks on the US would proliferate as our enemies would see us as weak. E) If Clinton/Gore would have done something about 9/11, as soon as they saw the first protests, they would have turned tail and ran. They ran a Democracy, Bush runs a Republic, which we are. See Dr. Dave's excellent post above for the difference. I make these statements based on 25 years of watching the two competing idealogies and I do not make them lightly. I sleep alot better knowing that Bush is in-charge of things than I would if Gore were. I guess it is that simple. Also, if Clinton/Gore would be reacting in some aggressive manner, we would not hear a peep out of the same people that are condeming these actions now.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

...Either look at the facts or don't, but to assume the way someone would act in a situation they have not been put in before is not reasonable and is pure speculation.
Click to expand...

That's what I tell my girlfriend all the time! :/
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Statements like this are why conservatives are labeled prejudiced, bigoted, closed-minded. Lumping half the country into a group and assiging attributes to all of them collectively... this is a good example of the pervasive conservative racism, anti-semitism and bigotry of all kinds. You are all that way!

Liberals label conservatives that way because they are simply looking in the mirror and don't recognize themselves. ;)

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

no, because "they" make prejudicial bigoted remarks like the one you made.

I'm not exactly a liberal but you don't have to listen to Rush or Hannity very long, or read the posts from some of you "conservatives" here on the board, to hear "liberals are ...", "liberals always...", "liberals do..."


which raises an important question: typing a post and putting it on the message board for public view, is that "saying something" or "doing something"?
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I'm just typing. Not really saying or doing, anything. I guess I'm providing entertainment without being paid and having a little fun in the process.

Is the over 75% of the country who supported the war conservative or liberal?

And what is the fixation with Rush, Hannity, Fox, etc? All they are saying are things that 150,000,000 Americans think everyday. Unfortunately, the only places they can get the truth is from these outlets. But don't fret, there are more on the way! There is definitely a pole shift in idealogy slowly occuring in this country. As the truth gets out, it's like in the Matrix, people will finally awaken, and see reality.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"Is the over 75% of the country who supported the war conservative or liberal"

some of each, I'm sure.

"I'm just typing. Not really saying or doing, anything".
that sounds a lot like not taking responsibility. Words mean things...
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"I'm just typing. Not really saying or doing, anything".
that sounds a lot like not taking responsibility. Words mean things...

I will definitely take responsibility, and as you have seen, when I make a mistake, as with Moe, I apologize.

The comment was made to make light of things so that people would not take things so seriously. The left and the right will always disagree, so why not have a little fun in the meantime.

CAUTION: GENERALIZATION COMING... Another thing I have noticed, the left seems to be short of two virtues: 1) patience, 2) a sense of humor. Whenever things get hot and heavy, they get frustrated and angry. Just my observation!


'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
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