Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

S

Stonecoldtx

Registered
Hi, All--

Does anyone happen to know what the differences are between the GEN-I LSC cars and the GEN-II LSC cars for the "Right Catalytic Converter Assembly" (which is actually the right converter, the third converter with dual outlets and the pipes in between)?

Are there differences in layout or pipe size?

I can't seem to find any for the GEN-II LSC online ANYWHERE, except for FPN, and their price for it is around $2800!!

The GEN-I LSC part, on the other hand, is several different places, and ranges from around $362-$380.

Therefore, if it's got the same layout and pipe size, with the ONLY differences being the catalytic converters, I'm inclined to use the GEN-I LSC part if I can.
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

Hi, Driller--

You said:

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Apples and oranges according to the manuals I have. [/div]

Well, I know they have different part numbers and prices, but without knowing the specifics, such as pipe size and layout, it could be that the difference is simply that they used different catalytic converters or material in them.

I can't imagine these parts being all that much different, considering that they didn't change the floorpan or exhaust manifolds on these cars.

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]My suggestion: http://www.speedfreak.cc/products/mk8exhaust/ [/div]

Well, I tried to buy exhaust parts from Dan about 6 months ago; we spoke a couple of times on the phone, and each time was more and more vague; then, I tried contacting him for more information several times after that, but never was able to get in touch with him.

Because I could never "hook up" with Dan, I had to have some podunk backwoods muffler shop bend up a complete exhaust system with the catalytic converters and mufflers I wanted to install; they did a TERRIBLE job and I hate the way it sounds.

Since I can't find the sound I like, and don't have the money to "experiment", I plan on just going back with a STOCK LSC dual exhaust system, pure and simple.

So, back to the questions:

Does anybody KNOW whether:

1.) The layout is the same or not (do the pipes have the same "routing")?
2.) If the pipe sizes are the same between the years/Generations?
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

Should be the same setup. The only difference would be the fact that gen II has the air injection, and therefore uses a different manifold. The Gen II manifolds are cast iron pieces, whereas the Gen I has a stainless tube configuration. There is an exception, though. The 96 cars all had the Gen II style manifolds, since we switched to EEC-V. I will be getting rid of my cat back system fairly soon, it sounded great when there were manifolds and cats on the car. We could work something out if you like.
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Have you seen this?[/div]

Yep. It's what I have installed right now. Don't like it.
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

guys please leave me a email if you hav any questions. call me and leave me a message. i have problems getting back to every one but i will attempt to do my best to help you out.
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

Hi, All--

Thanks for the response, Eli, it's appreciated, but I don't know if it's definitive enough for me; I need to find someone who HAS COMPARED the two systems before I go and plunk my money down and purchase something that "should" work.

Also, thanks for the PM Dan, but I am just not interested in playing around with this issue anymore.

I have a replacement, high-flow CarSound catalytic converter where the right one was, and I'm running 2-1/2" pipe all the way from the manifolds to the mufflers.

I have a Magnaflow 12468 in the center, and a pair of DynoMAX Super Turbo "HEMI" mufflers, with a pair of FUGLY tips on them that stick WAY too far out the back.

Due to the tight spaces under the car, and the large mufflers in the rear, and due to the ineptitude of the backwoods muffler shop I went to, pretty much all the bends are crimped to some degree, and some of them are pretty bad.

While crimps won't really affect sound all that much, I really DO NOT like the sound of my car until it reaches 6000RPM.

To me, it sounds like a truck, and to be quite honest with you, all the sound clips I've heard (from several different places) pretty much sound the same way, only louder.

I am VERY limited as to funds, but I'm forced to change it out because as I was backing up on Thursday, I backed up a little TOO far, and the FUGLY tips that stick out too far came in contact with a retaining wall, and bent up the system on the right side, and broke or severely bent the rear hanger system.

So, now I have the mufflers bouncing up and down every time I go over a small bump.

OK, so I have to change it out, and I hate the sound it makes now. Due to the lack of funds, I have only a few options:

1.) I can purchase a different, smaller-diameter pipe system with mufflers and hire a shop to weld it in

This would cost me a MINIMUM of around $700, since I would have to buy the mufflers I want on it; here is one option I have considered:

Put a "Y" pipe at the front, necking down the two 2-1/2" downpipes into a 3" outlet, and then into a BEEEEG DynoMAX muffler (the 17740, which has dual 2-1/4" outlets), and then a set of 2-1/4" pipes from there to a pair of DynoMAX 17747's in the rear, and then hire some shop to bend it all up and weld it all in.

Parts Prices at Summit.com & Performance-Curve.com:

DynoMAX 17740: $69.88
DynoMAX 17747 (two) $85.76
Magnaflow 10778 "Y" pipe: $25.55
Ractive T815 (two): $68.00
Shipping & "Handling": $17.95
Total: $267.14

Another option:

I could install a "Y" in the front, taking both the 2-1/2" downpipes into a single 2-1/2" outlet, and then into another BEEEEG DynoMAX muffler that has a SINGLE 2-1/2" outlet (17748, for example), then have someone bend a SINGLE 2-1/2" pipe to the rear, splitting it off into two 2-1/4" pipes to the mufflers (the same ones as listed in the first option above), and here is what it would cost, using the same places for parts:

DynoMAX 17748 (2-1/2" I/O, Center/Offset): $42.88
DynoMAX 17747 (two): $85.76
Magnaflow 10768 "Y" pipe: $25.55
Magnaflow 10758 "Y" pipe: $25.55
Ractive T815 (two): $68.00
Shipping & "Handling": $17.95
Total: $265.69.

Using THIS option would reduce the total amount of labor needed to bend up pipes, and could possibly lower the overall amount he charges to between $300 and $400.

The only problem is--it probably would still sound like a truck, and that's assuming I COULD find someone who would do a good job on it.

My OTHER option is this:

2.) I can go with a stock setup, and do it all myself.

*IF* the GEN-I LSC headpipe/converter assembly has the SAME PIPE SIZE and ROUTING as the GEN-II LSC, then I can buy that for ~$362 shipped. I can then turn around and buy the complete GEN-II catback system for around $360 from FPN.

That's around $725, and I can bolt that on myself.

The stock system is a KNOWN QUANTITY. I KNOW it will flow enough to support 290HP (crankshaft, of course), and maybe even more.

I KNOW it's quiet (has to be--Mark VIII's were meant primarily as LUXURY cars), and more importantly, if it's quiet, it WON'T sound like a TRUCK!

SO--as you can see, I've done a little research here. What I DON'T KNOW, and the REASON FOR THIS POST, is the same two points I made earlier:

I need to know if someone HAS COMPARED these two systems, and knows for a FACT that they are routed the same, and use the same pipe size.

Does ANYBODY know these two things for a fact?

This is all I need to know. If they're too different, then I'll go with one of the two of the options I mentioned above, but if they ARE the same, I'd much rather go with that than fool around with "unknowns".

One other thing--if someone in or near the DFW Metroplex has a USED GEN-II LSC headpipe/converter assembly for sale, I would be VERY interested in it!

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I guess I needed to clarify why I'm asking about this.
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

Hi, All--

Well, I resolved my exhaust system dilemma, and here's what I did:

Parts Purchased

1.) One DynoMAX 17748, 2-1/2" I/O, Center/Offset muffler, which has a 4-3/4" 9-3/4" X 20" body and an overall length of 25-1/2", including the pipe extensions; Price: $42.88
2.) Two DynoMAX 17747's, 2-1/4" I/O, Center/Offset mufflers, and they have the same dimensions as the 17748 above, except for the pipe diameter; Price: $85.76
3.) Two Ractive T815B Black Chrome Exhaust tips, with 2-1/4" inlets; Price: $70
4.) One DynoMAX 17379 Catback system for a T-Bird, which included a 2-1/2" Intermediate pipe, a 2-1/2" "Y" pipe that split into two 2-1/4" tailpipes and two mufflers (177679 and 17680), as well as clamps and a flange. Price: $209.95
5.) One 2-1/2" "U" bend pipe; Price: $23.74
6.) One 1-ft length of 2-1/2" pipe Price: free
Shipping and Tax: $41.90

Total Price for all parts: $474.23

Here is what I did:

I took the 2-1/2" "U" bend pipe, and cut a hole in the "U" section; then, I ground down one end of the 1-ft section of 2-1/2" pipe so that it would fit on the "U" bend pipe at that location, and welded it onto it there to make it into a "Y" pipe.

Next, I cut off all but about 1" of that section of pipe I just welded on, and after smoothing out the areas within the pipe where the edges were ragged, I got under the car and marked where the downpipes would intersect the "Y" pipe on both the downpipes and the "Y".

I cut both the downpipes and the "Y", using my bench grinder to make the transition as smooth as possible, and then welded the new "Y" pipe to the downpipes.

After that, I placed the 17748 DynoMAX muffler on a floor jack and got it positioned where I wanted it, cut off about 1-1/2" from the inlet (I used the center one for the inlet, since the flow is unidirectional) and tack welded it to the "Y" pipes.

Next, I dropped the downpipes/"Y-pipe" and muffler assembly out of the car so I could finish welding everything up, and when it was cool enough to handle, I installed it back into the car.

For the next portion, I hung the rearward "Y" pipe that came with the catback system on the existing hanger, and test fit the intermediate pipe; it was flanged, so I knew I would have to cut it, but didn't know where until I test-fitted that pipe.

I cut the Intermediate pipe, and it ended up perfectly in the center of the raised portion of the gas tank.

I then mounted the 17747 mufflers with the center as the inlet, tilted slightly so they would tuck up into the wells on each side and test fitted the tips; they extended out a little too far, and the fit between the exit of the tailpipes and the mufflers was really tight, so I cut about 1-1/2" off each of the inlet AND outlets on the mufflers, and about the same on the tips.

After I got everything positioned the way I wanted it, I tack welded everything and started the car. Once I determined that everything was placed properly and I had no leaks, I finish welded everything.

END RESULT:

The car is nearly STOCK quiet inside the car, but with a little bit of "tone" to it, and it really sounds pretty when you hit the upper RPM ranges.

The car has NOTICEABLY more low-end torque now; when I was test-driving it to make sure there were no exhaust leaks or problems with pipes/mufflers hitting anything, I took off from a parking lot under full throttle and spun the rear tires--WITH the Traction Control ON (I forgot to turn it off--heh heh). I was NEVER able to do that with the full 2-1/2" setup, and only marginally able to do that with the TC turned off.

SO--I got the relatively quiet exhaust I wanted (it no longer sounds like a "truck"), it sounds really nice when I get into it, and it cost me about $200 LESS than what I thought I was going to end up paying. I guess you could say I'm pretty happy about the end results!

Oh--one other thing--while it might not be a true dual exhaust, I would bet that this system would flow as well as a stock LSC true-dual setup (due to pipe sizes, muffler flow, lack of a third catalytic converter, etc.), so I don't think I'm in TOO bad of shape!

( ;-{)}
 
RE: Differences between GEN-I and GEN-II Dual Headpipes

Hi, All--

Following up on my last post:

I was under the hood on Friday, checking things out, and while I was there, I thought I would "blip" the throttle a little bit; when I did, I found that I had an exhaust leak!

You couldn't hear the exhaust leak unless you were under the hood, and were hitting the throttle; it was completely undetectable under the car and while driving.

Well, here's what happened--I kept the 2-1/2" downpipes that were there, and just modified the system behind that, and since the guy I took the car to did such a crappy job, it turns out that the right pipe was leaking at the exhaust manifold all this time! He had made the flare too big!

I went down to my favorite neighborhood exhaust weld-'em-up place, and got an "insert"--a 2" piece of 2-14" OD pipe, with a flare on the end of it to mate to the exhaust manifold.

I just slipped that "insert" into the existing right downpipe, tightened down the flange, and viola! No more exhaust leak!! That quieted the car down even more than the system I just put on it--in the interioranyway!

At the rear, I have a deep rumble that can be heard in the interior, but nothing like the way it was previously!

Oh, by the way--I've figured out a way to put TWO Magnaflow 2-1/2" dual I/O mufflers in the space where the original third catalytic converter/resonator resided. That will be my NEXT modification to the system!

From time to time, people ask me why I want a quiet exhaust--the reason is REALLY SIMPLE: if you have a quiet exhaust, you don't attract the attention of the COPS when you nail it, and I HATE getting tickets!

I can't tell you how many times I've nailed it and passed by cops who didn't even give me a SECOND GLANCE! The exhaust system I have on it now has a really nice tone to it, and it's quiet inside the interior, and quiet enough OUTSIDE that no cops ever even LOOK at me!

That's called STEALTH, my friends!
 
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