The message center in my mom's '94 is acting up. The clock is not updating and neither is the compass. When you switch back and forth it picks up the new info, but if you leave the clock or compass up, they do not update. Any ideas? The car sat up for about 4-6 weeks without being driven. The alternator has been replaced, along with the battery. We were still having problems with the battery going dead after a week or 2 of sitting. Right now, my brother is driving the car regularly and noticed the updating issue.
Message center problems
- Thread starter Marcia
- Start date
RE: Message center problems
Chances are it's your airride. If you leave the car sit, the bags will slowly deflate. If you plan to leave it sit for long periods of time, turn it off when not using it, as the compressor will kick in when the ride height sensors notice the car dropiing in height.
Chances are it's your airride. If you leave the car sit, the bags will slowly deflate. If you plan to leave it sit for long periods of time, turn it off when not using it, as the compressor will kick in when the ride height sensors notice the car dropiing in height.
RE: Message center problems
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Chances are it's your airride. If you leave the car sit, the bags will slowly deflate. If you plan to leave it sit for long periods of time, turn it off when not using it, as the compressor will kick in when the ride height sensors notice the car dropiing in height.
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[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Chances are it's your airride. If you leave the car sit, the bags will slowly deflate. If you plan to leave it sit for long periods of time, turn it off when not using it, as the compressor will kick in when the ride height sensors notice the car dropiing in height.
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...::wtf:: ...
RE: Message center problems
Lets see here...how to better explaine this better for you logres. You had stated the car had sat for several weeks at a time. The car's airride system is trying to maintain it's height. Over time, the bags deflate, so the air compressor will kick in to bring it back up. This will in time kill the battery, as the compressor does draw a fair amount of amperage. If one of the airbags has a hole in it, even a small one, or one of the solinoids in the air ride isn't sealing properly, it could kill the battery over night. The air ride system is on all the time, even when the vehicle is turned off. Don't believe me? Turn your car off, through a couple hundred pounds of stuff in the trunk, and it will kick in to compensate.
If you suspect the Alternator, I would recomend taking it to get it tested. To check to see if it could be the airride, turn it off for a night, if the car settles a little overnight in one corner or another...even all 4 I suppose, you found the culpret.
Lets see here...how to better explaine this better for you logres. You had stated the car had sat for several weeks at a time. The car's airride system is trying to maintain it's height. Over time, the bags deflate, so the air compressor will kick in to bring it back up. This will in time kill the battery, as the compressor does draw a fair amount of amperage. If one of the airbags has a hole in it, even a small one, or one of the solinoids in the air ride isn't sealing properly, it could kill the battery over night. The air ride system is on all the time, even when the vehicle is turned off. Don't believe me? Turn your car off, through a couple hundred pounds of stuff in the trunk, and it will kick in to compensate.
If you suspect the Alternator, I would recomend taking it to get it tested. To check to see if it could be the airride, turn it off for a night, if the car settles a little overnight in one corner or another...even all 4 I suppose, you found the culpret.
RE: Message center problems
Actually:
The air ride disengages after like an hour or so of turning the ignition off. Thats why when people have a leaky bag and leave the car over night they come out to a slammed car, and have to start it to get it to get the car off the ground. Thats exactly what happened when my fronts went, I would come out to a car slammed every morning and have to wait a minute or so for it to air back up.
Actually:
The air ride disengages after like an hour or so of turning the ignition off. Thats why when people have a leaky bag and leave the car over night they come out to a slammed car, and have to start it to get it to get the car off the ground. Thats exactly what happened when my fronts went, I would come out to a car slammed every morning and have to wait a minute or so for it to air back up.
RE: Message center problems
The message center has two fuses in the 1994 Mark. They are both in the instrument panel. Fuse 16 & fuse 17. Fuse 16 has power at all times, and is the one that gives the power to the clock to increment. Fuse 17 is on only when the key is in accessory or run position. Fuse 16 connects to the module using C208 (larger black connector) pin 27 (Light Green/Purple wire). Fuse 17 connects to the module using C246 (the other black connector) pin 10 (White/Purple wire). Fuse 17 turns on the display and the compass. C208 is a 16 pin connector while C246 is a 12. Make sure that the door warning is not shown on the display, because you cannot clear that from the display using the reset button. If you have power at both places, then the module is probably bad.
And was said before, the air suspension only works for about an hour after you leave the car, but there are more things to drain the battery. If you think it's exessive, get a hold of an ammmeter that can measure from 1 amp to about 20 amps. Turn everything off except the air ride switch. Keep the ignition in the off position. You are only checking what's draining the battery as it sits with no one inside and not running.
Disconnect the ground wire from the battery and place the red wire from the ammmeter to a known good ground. (like the ground wire from the battery), (keep it away from the battery post) Using the 20 amp position, just quickly touch the black lead to the battery ground post. Make sure you are ready if the meter looks like it's going to slam all the way to the right. If you are at 20 amps or more, there is definately a problem. If not, then remove each fuse from the instrument panel, ONE at a time, then return to the same place. Then after you have done those, go to the engine compartment fuses and do the same. It's best if you can disconnect the battery ground wire in between each fuse test, just to make sure you don't short anything else out. Keep a record of how much each fuse reduces the load. If the meter drops dramatically after removing one particular fuse, you've found the drain on the battery. Then look it up in your owner's manual and see what it is connected to. If you don't have a manual, just post the fuse number here, and you'll find out.
Make sure the compressor is not running at the time you do this, so do not lean on or sit in the car while working.
If you let the car sit for two weeks and not use it, it is probably normal to have a dead battery. There is an awful lot of electrical needs in a car this soffisticated. Leaving one courtesy lamp on overnight is enough, along with everything else, to completely drain the battery.
The message center has two fuses in the 1994 Mark. They are both in the instrument panel. Fuse 16 & fuse 17. Fuse 16 has power at all times, and is the one that gives the power to the clock to increment. Fuse 17 is on only when the key is in accessory or run position. Fuse 16 connects to the module using C208 (larger black connector) pin 27 (Light Green/Purple wire). Fuse 17 connects to the module using C246 (the other black connector) pin 10 (White/Purple wire). Fuse 17 turns on the display and the compass. C208 is a 16 pin connector while C246 is a 12. Make sure that the door warning is not shown on the display, because you cannot clear that from the display using the reset button. If you have power at both places, then the module is probably bad.
And was said before, the air suspension only works for about an hour after you leave the car, but there are more things to drain the battery. If you think it's exessive, get a hold of an ammmeter that can measure from 1 amp to about 20 amps. Turn everything off except the air ride switch. Keep the ignition in the off position. You are only checking what's draining the battery as it sits with no one inside and not running.
Disconnect the ground wire from the battery and place the red wire from the ammmeter to a known good ground. (like the ground wire from the battery), (keep it away from the battery post) Using the 20 amp position, just quickly touch the black lead to the battery ground post. Make sure you are ready if the meter looks like it's going to slam all the way to the right. If you are at 20 amps or more, there is definately a problem. If not, then remove each fuse from the instrument panel, ONE at a time, then return to the same place. Then after you have done those, go to the engine compartment fuses and do the same. It's best if you can disconnect the battery ground wire in between each fuse test, just to make sure you don't short anything else out. Keep a record of how much each fuse reduces the load. If the meter drops dramatically after removing one particular fuse, you've found the drain on the battery. Then look it up in your owner's manual and see what it is connected to. If you don't have a manual, just post the fuse number here, and you'll find out.
Make sure the compressor is not running at the time you do this, so do not lean on or sit in the car while working.
If you let the car sit for two weeks and not use it, it is probably normal to have a dead battery. There is an awful lot of electrical needs in a car this soffisticated. Leaving one courtesy lamp on overnight is enough, along with everything else, to completely drain the battery.
RE: Message center problems
Mark,
I do not have specific information on 1997 Mark VIIIs. If it is similar to a 1998 (which is very likely), there are only two fuses as well. They are fuse 4, which is hot with delayed accessory relay #1 or key in RUN position, and fuse 20, hot at all times. Fuse 4 also powers the compass, the factory radio, the passenger's seat module, the cell phone (if equipped), and the electronic day/night mirror (if equipped). Fuse 20 also powers the instrument cluster, (guages, tach, speedometer, and the shift position lights), also the automatic climate control module (ETAC module) So, check if the a/c heating system works. If all these systems work, it's not the fuses.
If you are still having problems and the fuses are good, check the grounds.
The list for the grounds depend on the systems it monitors. The grounds for the module itself are G103 and G301. G103 is on the lower LH front corner of the engine compartment. The engine coolant level sensor, the fuel pump/fuel gauge sender, and the message center switch assembly are also connected there. So, if the car runs and the temperature and fuel gauges work, that ground is probably good. G301, is located on the RH side of the floor pan, in front of the RH front door. You can check G301 out by turning on the RH rear reading lamp, or see if the right side window goes up and down. Also see if your air bag monitor works correctly.
The next ground is G104, located on the RH front corner of the engine compartment, on the front fender apron. That ground is for the washer fluid level switch. To quickly check it, blow the horns, or turn on your right hand directional switch with the key in the RUN position and go out a see if the right cornering lamp is lit.
G200 is next. That is located behind the center of the instrument panel, to the right of the radio. That ground is for the engine oil temperature sensor and the air suspension EVO steering module. That ground is an input for the "Check Air Ride System/System OK" indication in the message center. If you don't get an indication when you turn off your air ride switch in the trunk, this ground could be bad. Also, make sure your speed control and speedometer work because this ground is also for the vehicle speed sensor. Also, check out the right front seat power controls. Make sure the seat moves in all directions. Check all the switches and move the seat in all directions, because there are two grounds attached to that module and the book does not tell which ground does what.
G300 is located on the LH side of the floorpan in front of the LH front door. It is the ground for the compass, and lighting for the message center switch assembly. So, if the message switches in the middle of the dash board light, that ground is good. Also make sure the driver's window goes up and down.
Finally G400, located in the center of the trunk, on the end panel, (in back of the license plate in the trunk) is for the air suspension switch. So, if the suspension is OK, the ground is probably good. Also, check the license plate lamp when the lights are on. The rear lamps should also light. (left and right side marker lights, right and left rear parking lights, and if you want to try, turn the key to RUN without the engine running and put the gear shift lever in reverse and see if the backup lights work). The rear neon light is NOT an indication for this ground. It is grounded by G401.
If nothing is working on the message center, (no indication or messages), then check the fuses, and then G103 and G301. The rest of the grounds are for the respective inputs to the message center which are programmed into the message center when that respective wire goes to ground (except the air ride switch, which is backwards).
If you have to remove the module to check it out, the power connections are on both connectors. On C246, a black 12 pin connector, power from fuse 4 is on pin 10 (Black/Pink wire). On the other connector C208, a 16 pin connector, also black, from fuse 20, pin 27 (Red wire). Ground G103 is on C208 Pin 28 (Black/Light Blue wire) and the other ground is on the same connector, pin 36 (Black wire). If those connections are good and present, the module is probably bad, and you'll need to get another one. Make sure you check it out at the connectors before you buy another module.
The Gen 1 modules are NOT interchangeble with Gen 2 ones. You have a Gen 2. The Gen 2 has more connections, like "passenger's door open" instead of just "door ajar" and it also has the SCP or Standard Corporate Protocol connections that are used to transfer data from one module to the another. The Gen 1 message centers don't have this. If the colors don't match, you'll have to get someone else to help, because as I said, I do not have a 1997 manual. If the colors do match, and you check out the power connections at the connectors, check them with and without the fuses installed in the car. That way you're sure the colors are correct.
Hope the wire colors are the same and I hope this helps.
Mark,
I do not have specific information on 1997 Mark VIIIs. If it is similar to a 1998 (which is very likely), there are only two fuses as well. They are fuse 4, which is hot with delayed accessory relay #1 or key in RUN position, and fuse 20, hot at all times. Fuse 4 also powers the compass, the factory radio, the passenger's seat module, the cell phone (if equipped), and the electronic day/night mirror (if equipped). Fuse 20 also powers the instrument cluster, (guages, tach, speedometer, and the shift position lights), also the automatic climate control module (ETAC module) So, check if the a/c heating system works. If all these systems work, it's not the fuses.
If you are still having problems and the fuses are good, check the grounds.
The list for the grounds depend on the systems it monitors. The grounds for the module itself are G103 and G301. G103 is on the lower LH front corner of the engine compartment. The engine coolant level sensor, the fuel pump/fuel gauge sender, and the message center switch assembly are also connected there. So, if the car runs and the temperature and fuel gauges work, that ground is probably good. G301, is located on the RH side of the floor pan, in front of the RH front door. You can check G301 out by turning on the RH rear reading lamp, or see if the right side window goes up and down. Also see if your air bag monitor works correctly.
The next ground is G104, located on the RH front corner of the engine compartment, on the front fender apron. That ground is for the washer fluid level switch. To quickly check it, blow the horns, or turn on your right hand directional switch with the key in the RUN position and go out a see if the right cornering lamp is lit.
G200 is next. That is located behind the center of the instrument panel, to the right of the radio. That ground is for the engine oil temperature sensor and the air suspension EVO steering module. That ground is an input for the "Check Air Ride System/System OK" indication in the message center. If you don't get an indication when you turn off your air ride switch in the trunk, this ground could be bad. Also, make sure your speed control and speedometer work because this ground is also for the vehicle speed sensor. Also, check out the right front seat power controls. Make sure the seat moves in all directions. Check all the switches and move the seat in all directions, because there are two grounds attached to that module and the book does not tell which ground does what.
G300 is located on the LH side of the floorpan in front of the LH front door. It is the ground for the compass, and lighting for the message center switch assembly. So, if the message switches in the middle of the dash board light, that ground is good. Also make sure the driver's window goes up and down.
Finally G400, located in the center of the trunk, on the end panel, (in back of the license plate in the trunk) is for the air suspension switch. So, if the suspension is OK, the ground is probably good. Also, check the license plate lamp when the lights are on. The rear lamps should also light. (left and right side marker lights, right and left rear parking lights, and if you want to try, turn the key to RUN without the engine running and put the gear shift lever in reverse and see if the backup lights work). The rear neon light is NOT an indication for this ground. It is grounded by G401.
If nothing is working on the message center, (no indication or messages), then check the fuses, and then G103 and G301. The rest of the grounds are for the respective inputs to the message center which are programmed into the message center when that respective wire goes to ground (except the air ride switch, which is backwards).
If you have to remove the module to check it out, the power connections are on both connectors. On C246, a black 12 pin connector, power from fuse 4 is on pin 10 (Black/Pink wire). On the other connector C208, a 16 pin connector, also black, from fuse 20, pin 27 (Red wire). Ground G103 is on C208 Pin 28 (Black/Light Blue wire) and the other ground is on the same connector, pin 36 (Black wire). If those connections are good and present, the module is probably bad, and you'll need to get another one. Make sure you check it out at the connectors before you buy another module.
The Gen 1 modules are NOT interchangeble with Gen 2 ones. You have a Gen 2. The Gen 2 has more connections, like "passenger's door open" instead of just "door ajar" and it also has the SCP or Standard Corporate Protocol connections that are used to transfer data from one module to the another. The Gen 1 message centers don't have this. If the colors don't match, you'll have to get someone else to help, because as I said, I do not have a 1997 manual. If the colors do match, and you check out the power connections at the connectors, check them with and without the fuses installed in the car. That way you're sure the colors are correct.
Hope the wire colors are the same and I hope this helps.
First time poster, owned my Mark for many years. It is a beast (in a good way). I have major message center problems. Reset no longer works. Always says low washer fluid even when always full, reports air bag problems (not the cars fault, i was in WA for 2 years and loaned it to a relative (front actuator right side? went bad? so drops the front to the ground every day))) Reset button no longer works (random?). Car looks spot on, i have taken care of it; however i claim to be no expert in all aspects of it. I also notice as it shifts into third it will sometime do a wobble, i assume(?) it is the dual instead of a straight driveshaft and i think think maybe the gearing is off. I would appreciate all suggestions. (i also wondered if it would be able to replace the messaging center with a small transflective(?) screen with a small linux box to manage more and a replacement of the buttons ......ok im getting carried away, i love the car i will own it and my others till i die. any feedback would be nice.
jamies98lsc
Registered
here is some feedback, nice 7 year old thread resurection newb!!!!!!!
The message center is just telling you the results of your problems, it's not the cause.
The washer fluid low is a common problem caused by the sensor in the washer fluid bottle.
The inop reset button sounds like a keyboard problem, mine sometimes doesn't work as well.
The transmission "wobble" (sort of like driving on rumble srtips?) sounds like torque converter shudder or it might be time for an engine tune up.
The air suspension problem sounds like leaky air springs.
I'd search for these problems separatley, in the drivetrain, suspension, and electrical, sections here, these problems have been discussed quite often.
If you don't find the answers in the search, post the problems separatley, in those sections.
Welcome to the Lincolns of Distinction!:wave:
The washer fluid low is a common problem caused by the sensor in the washer fluid bottle.
The inop reset button sounds like a keyboard problem, mine sometimes doesn't work as well.
The transmission "wobble" (sort of like driving on rumble srtips?) sounds like torque converter shudder or it might be time for an engine tune up.
The air suspension problem sounds like leaky air springs.
I'd search for these problems separatley, in the drivetrain, suspension, and electrical, sections here, these problems have been discussed quite often.
If you don't find the answers in the search, post the problems separatley, in those sections.
Welcome to the Lincolns of Distinction!:wave:
Welcome!
One problem at a time please.
I think you can clean the contacts on the message center buttons for the bad reset switch issue. Worst case would be to find a used one the proper color on eBay. The message center switch panel is easy to replace. Use a plastic trim removal tool and pry up at the front edge to release it from the clips.
sorry that too will turn off after one hour, actually like 45 min.
Mr John was 7 years ago.
Evilshoe- is asking the new question.