98' Cobra Intake Manifold

Status
Not open for further replies.
XLRVIII said:
The fact that many NHRA "reputable" teams use Royal Purple oil doesnt not mean I'm gonna run out and pour Purple poop into my motor.

I dont do "monkey see monkey doo" modifications, I only do those that are proven.

just because NPG gives stuff to races teams and they use it doesnt mean it's "proven".

I base my mods on fact, not hearsay..

The proof is in the pudding.

you say it's "too much work".

you mean, plugging and XCal into the obd2 port is too much work?

That in itself tells me you dont "trust" the product.. and are afraid of what the datalog will tell us.

If it were proven to be a benefit I would switch in a new york second.

But I dont believe for a second that this "majic fluid" eliminates the #7-#8 cylinder overheating problems.. if it did, it would have been one of those "shots heard around the world".

ALL I asked was some data to back up your claims.. and you crayfished.
That's.. all I need to hear.. I guess.

unless you provide data to back up "YOUR" claims, not linking to someome elses experience, then it's all just hearsay.
Click to expand...

Actually, my Xcal is having trouble datalogging lately...I keep getting errors. I've informed Lonnie a long time ago, but I haven't work it out yet. But thanks for the benefit of the doubt with the bashing.

Why can't you just believe me when I say that my temp gauge reads at the "N", or whatever letter? I can fudge Xcal data just as easily as lying about my gauge readings. Besides, the only thing that the gauge or the datalogging will tell you is OVERALL engine temp. It can't tell you anything about the hotspots.

Tell me...do you understand what hotspots and micro-boiling are? If you don't, then you can't know how NPG works.
 
Wayne I really am not bashing you...

what color screen is the Xcal and when you plug it in and scroll down to device info what version of firmwear is on it?

seriously, think about this for a sec.

Do you really want someone that is having cooling problem run across this and think it's gonna solve their issue?

Do you want some budding noob to mis use your information?

If you can show there is merit with actual data then by ALL MEANS, let's save the world.

I just dont see how a majoc fluid that increases the engines temperature could possibly be construed as "better".. especially in an engine that already suffers from some design flaw engineering.

With that said, lemme know if it's a blue or green screen and what FW version is on the Xcal and also {crap) what version of livelink do you have?
 
Lols... if you all were really concerned about hot spots or improving the cooling of your motor you would do the rear cylinder head cooling mod.... not fill your motor up with snake oil.
 
kustomizingkid said:
Lols... if you all were really concerned about hot spots or improving the cooling of your motor you would do the rear cylinder head cooling mod.... not fill your motor up with snake oil.
Click to expand...

The audacity.

Not only do you imply that I'm an idiot based solely on your opinion, but to imply that various legitimate racing teams are idiots is...audacity. The two of you have no facts, no experience, no theories, no testimonies, and no data to prove NPG doesn't work. And somehow that trumps my experience with NPG and racing teams testimony.

I guess I should have expected that from anyone who argues with Lonnie about tuning.
 
If he was concerned with engine cooling I wouldn't think he'd put a product in there that actually made the motor Run Hotter

But.. I dont have one of them fancy uberhigh IQ's nor DEEGREEEE's either.

I'm just a dumbass, wayne has figured it out.

...hangs head in shame...
 
Wayne, when you get your Xcal working I would like to see the results also. I'm very glad you are happy with the results but it seems a little backwards to me also.

It is your car and what you do to it is your business. I'm glad that you share your experiences with us but I would like to see proof before I would attempt what you have done.
 
logres said:
Actually, my Xcal is having trouble datalogging lately...I keep getting errors. I've informed Lonnie a long time ago, but I haven't work it out yet. But thanks for the benefit of the doubt with the bashing.

Why can't you just believe me when I say that my temp gauge reads at the "N", or whatever letter? I can fudge Xcal data just as easily as lying about my gauge readings. Besides, the only thing that the gauge or the datalogging will tell you is OVERALL engine temp. It can't tell you anything about the hotspots.

Tell me...do you understand what hotspots and micro-boiling are? If you don't, then you can't know how NPG works.
Click to expand...

Wayne, you will more than likely have to call SCT to work out your Live Link issue. From what I remember the device works fine, it's the software. I'm also having issues with the Live Link and have 4 different versions on my laptop since each time SCT fixes something with a version to get it to work with Vista they cause a new problem. They have the latest version up on the site now that is supposed to be the fix all. I haven't tried it since now this newer version requires you to delete all the other versions first. I'm not getting screwed again by relying on a single data base.

In order to actually see what is really going on with the NPG you would need to have a donor vehicle that you could modify (drilling holes) to install pyrometers in the needed locations such as the factories and big race companies that develop their own products. Just like I said before, a calibration level. I remember when Jerry W was first testing and calibrating the Marauders before they went into production. He took me for a ride in one of the test vehicles. The Batmobile had nothing on this car. There were more sensors and computers installed in and on it than you could imagine. That's the type of calibration that would really be needed to say if the stuff actually was beneficial or not. You won't see the hot spots without that type of equipment but the data logging with your device would still be interesting. A before which I know is now too late and then an after might show something either way.

I've seen the new Mustang Dyno and they load simulator in action. The two vehicles that were dynoed with it required both fuel and spark adjustments once they hit the street. The fuel needed just a slight tweak but the spark had to be pulled and the load was higher on he street than the dyno. So when I left they were trying to duplicate the street load which was not anywhere near the actual vehicle info they put in programming.
 
I have several mods on my car that arguably may or may not prove to add performance.

My personal approach is to follow my gut instinct and logic. If a particular mod has merit in physical science, albeit not necessarily in a substantial quantitative manner, I will consider it even without 'proof'. Many will follow and say it is 'not worth it' or it doesn't 'increase horsepower', and they may be correct in a sense. However I believe many small mods, while individually imperceptible, do contribute to an overall increase in performance.

What mods do you ask am I talking about? If you bother to look at my somewhat extensive list, I'm sure anyone could point to several they personally believe to be 'voodoo' or 'snake oil', and I would be hard pressed to substantiate any proof to counter any argument. Just like beauty, 'performance mods' (like NPG+ coolant) can be in the eye of the beholder. ;)
 
Roadboss said:
Fred, I would suggest you save your money and not buy the SCT XCal 2 as you will never fully utilize it. When and if you ever get ready to do a full boogey tranny and convertor I would advise you to get your car over to Lonnie's or to Alternative Auto and have them to the tune at the same time they put in the tranny & TC. You can have your choice of up to a 4 switch chip if you want, and have a tune for each. Drivability issues always abound on performance upgrades, that's not to say a mail order tune is a bad thing, but thwere are just so many issues that can come up that can adversley effect an attempt to tune a car thru the mail. Read up on some of Lonnies posts over the last 6 months and you will get the idea.

Some things you can do on your own in your driveway/garage like doing a J Mod (intermediate step) for now, installing a tranny cooler, exhaust mods, suspension & Brake up grades. I would suggest if you are going onto making some serious power that you change out the drivetrain all at once or prepare to pay for several visits to your tuner of choice.

Just so you also know, I am running the "C" style heads and cams with the Whiner. The headers that Super Coupes sells (Kooks) fit either the "B" or "C" style heads. You do have to run a newer style front cover though. I even kept the coil paks that the Gen 1's used.
Click to expand...



Love the kit !!!
were did you get it?:confused:
 
I've seen cars do 1/4 mile runs on the street to go to the dyno and be a few hundreths of a second off, which proves the accuracy of the new program.
 
shospeed said:
Love the kit !!!
were did you get it?:confused:
Click to expand...


No kit there. All custom work done by Lidio at Alternative Auto out of Michigan. Massive mods were done by Lidio to Charlie's Mark, including the dyno tune. Lidio did a 1st class job with that build. He is one of the best tuner/builders out there. I drove from GA to MI to have him dyno and road tune my Mark after I had my custom exhaust installed. He is known very well for his road tuning with Ford products. :)


driller said:
I have several mods on my car that arguably may or may not prove to add performance.

My personal approach is to follow my gut instinct and logic. If a particular mod has merit in physical science, albeit not necessarily in a substantial quantitative manner, I will consider it even without 'proof'. Many will follow and say it is 'not worth it' or it doesn't 'increase horsepower', and they may be correct in a sense. However I believe many small mods, while individually imperceptible, do contribute to an overall increase in performance.

What mods do you ask am I talking about? If you bother to look at my somewhat extensive list, I'm sure anyone could point to several they personally believe to be 'voodoo' or 'snake oil', and I would be hard pressed to substantiate any proof to counter any argument. Just like beauty, 'performance mods' (like NPG+ coolant) can be in the eye of the beholder. ;)
Click to expand...


JP, I am like you, and am willing to try new things, but Aric kept me away from all that stuff. Except for what ProLine did to the motor and bottom end, I have all OEM Ford parts and gaskets except for the throttle body, oil pump, blower, aftercooler, and spark plugs. There might be a couple more items, but for the most part, Ford parts will get the job done. :)
 
Ok wise guys.

I just spoke to two friends of mine at the Mercedes-Benz corporate office and they "unofficially" told me that Mercedes will begin using a waterless coolant similar to NPG in some of their higher end models. The engines will be designed to run somewhat hotter than engines running on standard coolant, but they couldn't give me specifics.

I think we can all agree that the folks at MB are smarter than all of us?
 
That is the exact "monkey see monkey do" type of thing I was talking about.

I give up Wayne, your right.. NPG is the best.

If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, enjoy it.

I still have to disagree with the supposed "logic" that adding anything that RAISES the engines temperature is not a benefit to the MARK 8 platform because they have specific MECHANICAL design flaws in the cooling system.

A Mercedes that is designed to run at 250+ might benefit from this technology.

I do like how Lonnie has tried to tactfully (TWICE) tell you that any benefit is far deminished by the cost needed to even explore if it's fact or fiction.

Are you so focused on arguing with me, that your missing what lonnie is "really saying"?
 
bryantaylor said:
i put butter in my coolant, because butter makes EVERYTHING better.
Click to expand...

one drop of ivory liquid per gallon of coolant..

keeping in mind that we only have about a 1.5 gallon cap cooling system

and you'd better "practice" getting ONE drop out of an ivory liquid bottle before trying to put it in your cooling system.
1 drop per gallon works great.. 2 drops per gallon and your gonna have problems.
This is a case of "more is not better".

ONE drop per gallon

Once you figure out the "ONE DROP" part.. good luck getting a 1/2 drop!
 
Wayne are you using Live Link on XP or Vista?

I've got good working copies of Live Link 3 and 4..
and I aint touching ANY new version of Software from SCT.
My stuff works.. I aint fixin it.
 
XLRVIII said:
That is the exact "monkey see monkey do" type of thing I was talking about.

A Mercedes that is designed to run at 250+ might benefit from this technology.
Click to expand...

I guess if we are calling the engineering team at Benz a bunch of monkeys, then we really don't have much more to discuss.

I'm curious, who would you actually believe? NASCAR? Honda? God?

Anybody who requires data even from the best experienced minds is paranoid or something.

The Mercedes my friends mentioned are not the super-cars. We're talking the ~$120K production vehicles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top