attn J could use a little info on your A/F gauge plz

[7 sek mark]

hey your the only one that i know that has or has had a A/F gauge in your mark. when you wired it up did you just go off of one o2 or did you bridge them? i would also like to know witch wire you go off of on the o2. as i remember our cars has a 4 wire o2 i know 2 are for heat 1 is ground and the other is signal but witch one is the signal??

(waiting for pics lol)

 

[95blklsc]

using the narrowband stock ones won't tell you much. You should put a wide band in if you want to actually see what your cars A/F is.

 

[7 sek mark]

ya i would love a wide band in my car but that will be included in the tweecer program when i get that. for now a friend gave me a auto meter A/F gauge that matches my trans temp gauge. so im looking at free vs about $300 for the wide band set up. the one i have has got to be better than nothing and i would like to know what my motor is doing when i spray. i just want to make sure i have enough fuel going in with the nitrous so i dont run lean and burn holes in places they should not be.

 

[J]

(waiting for pics lol)

LMAO! I'm trying to remember....I think it was the black one. Let me look....It shows the Gray/Light Blue as being the Signal wire.

Here is a connector view....

using the narrowband stock ones won't tell you much. You should put a wide band in if you want to actually see what your cars A/F is.

It worked great on my car...I'm not sure what kinda difference a wideband makes, but I could see my O2 switching constantly.

 

[bryantaylor]

trying to tune with a narrowband is useless. the ONLY thing a narrowband can really read is stoich, then its just a guesse from there. all it will be is blinking lights. read your plugs if you want to know how its running.

but if you have to know
black-signal
grey-ground
white-heaters

 

[7 sek mark]

kinda hard to read the plugs in the middle of a race. it least the A/F gauge would show if something went wrong with the nitrous system during a race. like if say the proper fuel cuts out for some reason the gauge should go way lean and i know to shut her down. also if the nitrous solenoid gets stuck open it would go all the way lean and i know to shut the key off like now. true it might not be a true tuners tool but its got to be better than nothing right? im wanting it mostly for a warning light that something is wrong more than a tuning tool.

 

[XLRVIII]

the one i have has got to be better than nothing and i would like to know what my motor is doing when i spray. i just want to make sure i have enough fuel going in with the nitrous so i dont run lean and burn holes in places they should not be.
.

using the stock 02 sensors will tell you nothing about your AF ratio at WOT, or on nitrous.

in part throttle, the 02's normal operation is that they bounce back and give no useful information.

at WOT the PCM ignores the 02 sensors and the value you will receive out of the guage will be what the PCM is "commanding" in the base fuel table.

it "might" display 12.5 AF because that is what the PCM is "shooting for".. but it could easily be 14/1 or leaner and the display would still say 12.5.

You'd be better off putting a bottle pressure guage there, atleast it'd give you information that was "relevant"... or a clock even..

wb02 is the only way your going to get any useful data in regards to AF ratio.
ANYTHING else is completely useless, unless your trying to attract honda civics for a street race.

..dont be like those guys.

 

[driller]

Have a bung welded in your drivers side manifold and install a wideband O2 sensor. Like XLRVIII said, your A/F guage hooked up to the stock sensors will not tell you what you're looking for - that is protection from going lean on nitrous. A couple manufacturers even have a programmable safety switch built into the A/F guage to integrate with the nitrous wiring to "shut 'er down" if a lean condition is detected.

 

[bryantaylor]

kinda hard to read the plugs in the middle of a race. it least the A/F gauge would show if something went wrong with the nitrous system during a race. like if say the proper fuel cuts out for some reason the gauge should go way lean and i know to shut her down. also if the nitrous solenoid gets stuck open it would go all the way lean and i know to shut the key off like now. true it might not be a true tuners tool but its got to be better than nothing right? im wanting it mostly for a warning light that something is wrong more than a tuning tool.

but its not better than nothing, IMO its worse. just listen to your motor, you know when craps going wrong. those lights are just going to lure you into a false sense of security. just get a wideband if you are worried. i have a AEM uego and i love it, actually on the same sensor that came with it, and i have had it for over 2 years. its ran 24/7 in my miata as my only O2 sensor on the car (i have a standalone).

 

[XLRVIII]

it least the A/F gauge would show if something went wrong with the nitrous system during a race..

no it wont

like if say the proper fuel cuts out for some reason the gauge should go way lean and i know to shut her down. .

by the time you notice anything that wont be displayed on that gauge it will be too late.

also if the nitrous solenoid gets stuck open it would go all the way lean and i know to shut the key off like now. .

at wot it wont show you anything like that, at wot will only show you the commanded lambda in the base fuel table

true it might not be a true tuners tool but its got to be better than nothing right? .

no it wont be "better than nothing" it will BE NOTHING related to anything other than a "cutesy light show"

im wanting it mostly for a warning light that something is wrong more than a tuning tool.

It wont show you that anything IS wrong, it'll only show you that your 02's are switching from low voltage to high voltage, nothing more, nothing less

 

[J]

Dang. I just installed it because I liked the pretty lights. Maybe I'm "one of those guys".

 

[XLRVIII]

J, I think the car in your sig file says.. "nuff said".
(inserts smiley face)

 

[Lonnie]

I just dealt with another PRP customer this week that depended on one of those Autometer setups vice getting a real wide band setup. He ran the car at the track and is now calling me that he had to tear his motor down due to burning 5 valves and all the plugs. But he says "the meter was showing I was rich, I don't understand, there must be something wrong with the tune". I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard this before. When those meters first came out in the 80s I even fell for it until I hurt my own engine. Ever since I've been trying to convince people to spend the money on a real setup but no one listens.

 

[XLRVIII]

Lonnie, you've been around long enough to know that.. "it's always something wrong with the tune".

my favorite is the "i put a chip in my car and it slowed down and detonated"...

which is because their non serviced/ill mantained car cant deliver the correct AF...

and it slowed down because the stock 10/1 AF was actually being returned as 12/1 because the fuel system is old and cant keep up.

then when you command 12/1 on the same car it's now running at 14/1 and slow as ass and detonates..

damn tooners always screwing sumthin up.
(sarcastic smile)

 

[J]

 

[Devin]

I purchased a digital gage from Dynotune Nitrous and wired it directly into the ECU. I could probably dig up the pinouts if you are interested in it. I installed a switch where I can read from the left or right bank, although you could just get two gages as well.

Mine is connected to my standard, but new Bosch o2 sensors, and then test calibrated with about 9 dyno runs experimenting with various nitrous jets. The dynotune gages show a range from 11.5:1 to 17.0:1 and read perfectly in tune with the dyno passes on each pass, with the exception of one pass that was so rich that the dynotune gage just freaked out on it.

Personally I trust them. But these are not just "blinking lights" gages, they read and display the voltage directly from the o2 sensor.

 

[driller]

You miss the point mentioned before.

The readings from your factory O2 sensors may match your dyno readout now but that does not mean they will indicate a lean condition to be certain you don't actually run lean.

...at wot will only show you the commanded lambda in the base fuel table...

What will the guage read under true lean operating conditions say... caused by a faulty fuel delivery while under spray?

 

[Devin]

This gage seems very fast and very accurate, however the o2 sensor itself may not react quickly enough. I am going to guess that my hobbes switch would catch the pressure drop before I could possibly react to it anyway.

Assuming a catastrophic failure of the gage, the o2 sensor, my fuel system and the hobbes switch I am thinking it wouldn't matter if I had 5000 bucks worth of gages in there, I've lost the engine regardless.

Personally I am happy with the setup I have.

Edit: "at wot will only show you the commanded lambda in the base fuel table" I am not even entirely sure what this means. I am pulling signals straight from the 02 sensors, what the ECU is doing isn't part of this metric. My last run just last night I could watch my bottle pressure fall (I was running low) just by watching my A/F get progressively more and more rich. It's not reading some stochiometric ideal, it's reading what the sensors are sending.

I contend that in a situation of a sudden, dangerous leaning of the motor the slowest and most unreliable element is the human reaction.

 

[bryantaylor]

THE ONLY VOLTAGE A NARROWBAND CAN READ IS 0.5 VOLTS, THAT'S IT. you know why the guage "reads so fast" because it doesn't know what the air fuel ratio is. it just see's rich, lean, rich, lean, rich, lean, rich, lean/ over .5 volts or under .5 volts. ALL a narrowbad provides the ECU with is a "switchpoint" for cruiseing. not a certain AFR under WOT.

 

[XLRVIII]

THE ONLY VOLTAGE A NARROWBAND CAN READ IS 0.5 VOLTS, THAT'S IT. you know why the guage "reads so fast" because it doesn't know what the air fuel ratio is. it just see's rich, lean, rich, lean, rich, lean, rich, lean/ over .5 volts or under .5 volts. ALL a narrowbad provides the ECU with is a "switchpoint" for cruiseing. not a certain AFR under WOT.

100% correct