best bang for the buck?
- Thread starter GUS
- Start date
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: best bang for the buck?
What do you have done already?
If you can only do one mod at a time, and are starting with a stock mark, do it in this order:
4.10 gears with a limited slip differential
Tune (let the tuner know of your future modding plans so that your tune will accomodate them)
3000 (or higher) stall torque converter
long tubes
With stock gears a 3000 stall will be useless. You need some kind of limited slip differential in there or you'll just be spinning one tire off the line. And headers are the most involved as far as installation of anything on that list, so they should be last.
What do you have done already?
If you can only do one mod at a time, and are starting with a stock mark, do it in this order:
4.10 gears with a limited slip differential
Tune (let the tuner know of your future modding plans so that your tune will accomodate them)
3000 (or higher) stall torque converter
long tubes
With stock gears a 3000 stall will be useless. You need some kind of limited slip differential in there or you'll just be spinning one tire off the line. And headers are the most involved as far as installation of anything on that list, so they should be last.
14point6at97MPH
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Do you already have a cat back exhaust? If you don't get that first!!!! If you can afford LT's and exhaust do that all at once.
I only have one mod on my car, a cat back exhaust, and it took 3/10ths off my quarter mile time. (this is with at least 50 BEFORE exhaust runs)
Ken
Do you already have a cat back exhaust? If you don't get that first!!!! If you can afford LT's and exhaust do that all at once.
I only have one mod on my car, a cat back exhaust, and it took 3/10ths off my quarter mile time. (this is with at least 50 BEFORE exhaust runs)
Ken
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: best bang for the buck?
Well damn, you're already two steps in on my list. Geno's right, it's up to a coin toss at this point. But if you plan on doing the converter, i'd do it before the headers. That's simply because the headers MAY make it more difficult (or impossible) to remove and install the trans, which is necessary when installing a torque converter. From what i've heard here, you can still wiggle the trans out between the headers, but there is a possibility (depending on the headers) that one side will have to come off to remove the trans. That's only a possible problem with long tubes though, with midlengths you won't have a problem.
Personally, i'm doing headers and the converter at the same time, sometime this winter.
Well damn, you're already two steps in on my list. Geno's right, it's up to a coin toss at this point. But if you plan on doing the converter, i'd do it before the headers. That's simply because the headers MAY make it more difficult (or impossible) to remove and install the trans, which is necessary when installing a torque converter. From what i've heard here, you can still wiggle the trans out between the headers, but there is a possibility (depending on the headers) that one side will have to come off to remove the trans. That's only a possible problem with long tubes though, with midlengths you won't have a problem.
Personally, i'm doing headers and the converter at the same time, sometime this winter.
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: best bang for the buck?
Not to take over this thread but there are a few things to look at. A good TC will run you around 800 bucks plus install and a custom set of LTs will run you around 1,200 bucks. How much you willing to spend?
Now I've been telling my Tbird crowd that if they move the rack over some with off set bushings. The ones that you use when you lower your car 2 inches or more will give you room to fit Mustang exhaust. We proved this with a 95 Tbird and a Cobra engine using the stock Cobra exhaust manifolds. They just cleared with about a 1/16". You just turn the bushing sideways instead of up and down. But then I got to thinking about my 5.0 Tbird and that just didn't work out as well. But I did figure that if you used something like a Flaming River steering shaft with minor mods to the factory shaft and coupler that there should be enough room to put in a set of SN95 big tube headers. I've suggested this several times to fellow 5.0 Tbird guys and finally one of them tried it. Here's the post... http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29945
Now since the MN12 and Mark share the same unibody this should work on the Mark too. With the shaft completely out of the way you should be able to run unmodified Cobra LT headers or shorties. That would save you a few hundred dollars for the modified set making the price of either swap about the same.
Now that the cat is out of the bag I imagine some unscrupulous group will try and capitalize on it making it a kit and trying to sell it to you. I wish I still had my shop so I could at least do that since I come up with these ideas.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
Not to take over this thread but there are a few things to look at. A good TC will run you around 800 bucks plus install and a custom set of LTs will run you around 1,200 bucks. How much you willing to spend?
Now I've been telling my Tbird crowd that if they move the rack over some with off set bushings. The ones that you use when you lower your car 2 inches or more will give you room to fit Mustang exhaust. We proved this with a 95 Tbird and a Cobra engine using the stock Cobra exhaust manifolds. They just cleared with about a 1/16". You just turn the bushing sideways instead of up and down. But then I got to thinking about my 5.0 Tbird and that just didn't work out as well. But I did figure that if you used something like a Flaming River steering shaft with minor mods to the factory shaft and coupler that there should be enough room to put in a set of SN95 big tube headers. I've suggested this several times to fellow 5.0 Tbird guys and finally one of them tried it. Here's the post... http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29945
Now since the MN12 and Mark share the same unibody this should work on the Mark too. With the shaft completely out of the way you should be able to run unmodified Cobra LT headers or shorties. That would save you a few hundred dollars for the modified set making the price of either swap about the same.
Now that the cat is out of the bag I imagine some unscrupulous group will try and capitalize on it making it a kit and trying to sell it to you. I wish I still had my shop so I could at least do that since I come up with these ideas.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
unstoppable
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Its a great idea Lonnie but it doesn't work.I have used the offset bushings your talking about.One of the sets I built rubbed a little even after I modded them and the bushings bought us enough space.
But there is no possible way unmodified longtubes will fit with just a knuckle and offset bushings.
Do yourself a favor and buy the set Joe designed for Dan to copy.Its a fair price and they have known results.
And better yet I wont have to buildem.I hate building them.
Its a great idea Lonnie but it doesn't work.I have used the offset bushings your talking about.One of the sets I built rubbed a little even after I modded them and the bushings bought us enough space.
But there is no possible way unmodified longtubes will fit with just a knuckle and offset bushings.
Do yourself a favor and buy the set Joe designed for Dan to copy.Its a fair price and they have known results.
And better yet I wont have to buildem.I hate building them.
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: best bang for the buck?
Chris,
I'm not talking about using the bushings for the LTs. We did the bushings with a Tbird to install a Cobra engine and they worked with the stock Cobra manifolds but with only 1/16" clearance.
What I'm talking about is moving the whole steering shaft over, look at the link. If there's room for a 351 and long tubes for an SN95 in a Tbird then there should be enough room for our Lincolns. Granted the DOHC is wider but it's exhaust ports point downward from the exit of the heads. Where as the pushrod V8s are almost straight out.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
Chris,
I'm not talking about using the bushings for the LTs. We did the bushings with a Tbird to install a Cobra engine and they worked with the stock Cobra manifolds but with only 1/16" clearance.
What I'm talking about is moving the whole steering shaft over, look at the link. If there's room for a 351 and long tubes for an SN95 in a Tbird then there should be enough room for our Lincolns. Granted the DOHC is wider but it's exhaust ports point downward from the exit of the heads. Where as the pushrod V8s are almost straight out.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
unstoppable
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
I know exactly what you are talking about.The bushings are offset a tad.
They do move the steering shaft over, but nowhere near enough to fit longtubes.Stock cobra manifolds sure, but not longtubes.Trust me on this one.
And its a pain in the butt to get the old bushings out.I had to torch them and then bang the crap out of them.And then it was a pain to get the bolts in and out.
I know exactly what you are talking about.The bushings are offset a tad.
They do move the steering shaft over, but nowhere near enough to fit longtubes.Stock cobra manifolds sure, but not longtubes.Trust me on this one.
And its a pain in the butt to get the old bushings out.I had to torch them and then bang the crap out of them.And then it was a pain to get the bolts in and out.
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: best bang for the buck?
Come on now, they weren't that hard. I've done a few now and the hardest part was getting the rack down enough to get them in. Now pressing them in is a real PITA. I use an air chisel with a blunt end.
Anyways, I don't think we are on the same level still. Forget about the bushings for a minute. Look at the whole link. I'm talking about moving the whole steering shaft from the firewall to the rack up against the inner frame. http://www.qsl.net/wd4ngb/birdworka1.htm
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
Come on now, they weren't that hard. I've done a few now and the hardest part was getting the rack down enough to get them in. Now pressing them in is a real PITA. I use an air chisel with a blunt end.
Anyways, I don't think we are on the same level still. Forget about the bushings for a minute. Look at the whole link. I'm talking about moving the whole steering shaft from the firewall to the rack up against the inner frame. http://www.qsl.net/wd4ngb/birdworka1.htm
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
Mad1stGen
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Loonie,
assuming this would work, wouldn't that make the steering somewhat difficult ? I looked at the pics, and it does add quite an angle. What if we combine the two ideas ? move the steering rack, and modify the headers ? maybe then they don't have to be modified that much ?
Loonie,
assuming this would work, wouldn't that make the steering somewhat difficult ? I looked at the pics, and it does add quite an angle. What if we combine the two ideas ? move the steering rack, and modify the headers ? maybe then they don't have to be modified that much ?
unstoppable
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Well if you are going to mod them might as well mod them enough you dont have to do what Lonnie is showing.
I would do one or the other not both.
But fortunatley Joe sent Dan a set to copy and we dont have to go through the hassle.Just buy them from Dan.
Well if you are going to mod them might as well mod them enough you dont have to do what Lonnie is showing.
I would do one or the other not both.
But fortunatley Joe sent Dan a set to copy and we dont have to go through the hassle.Just buy them from Dan.
Mad1stGen
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Yeah, Dan's the man. www.speedfreak.cc
That was going to be my next argument. At the price he's offering them, I don't see the reason to modify anything ... but props to Loonie as well - always a good info.
Yeah, Dan's the man. www.speedfreak.cc
That was going to be my next argument. At the price he's offering them, I don't see the reason to modify anything ... but props to Loonie as well - always a good info.
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: best bang for the buck?
Well it really doesn't matter to me what people do or how they reach their goal. I just figured I would save them some money showing them an alternative. I've already got me a set of big tube LTs for the Lincoln. So $500 for the headers, $200 for the steering components and then I'm guessing about $40 for fabricating up something for the firewall and bearing. I do my own installs. So that's $740 compared to the $650 - $1200 depending on who does them for a set of modified headers. Then the cost of install if you don't do it yourself and the exhaust change.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
Well it really doesn't matter to me what people do or how they reach their goal. I just figured I would save them some money showing them an alternative. I've already got me a set of big tube LTs for the Lincoln. So $500 for the headers, $200 for the steering components and then I'm guessing about $40 for fabricating up something for the firewall and bearing. I do my own installs. So that's $740 compared to the $650 - $1200 depending on who does them for a set of modified headers. Then the cost of install if you don't do it yourself and the exhaust change.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Lincoln Mark VIII
279 rwhp 305 rwtq
92 Tbird 5.0 Sport
328 rwhp 347 rwtq
unstoppable
Registered
RE: best bang for the buck?
Its a pretty cool setup Lonnie.But I just figured if someone can do their own install, the set of Joes design would save a few bucks.
Its a pretty cool setup Lonnie.But I just figured if someone can do their own install, the set of Joes design would save a few bucks.