Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
- Thread starter Sneth
- Start date
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
You really need to get another diagnosis. Is Midas the one telling you this?
John
[link:www.goldengatemark8.com|Golden Gate Mark VIII Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
You really need to get another diagnosis. Is Midas the one telling you this?
John
[link:www.goldengatemark8.com|Golden Gate Mark VIII Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
this is a well established auto repair chain in the saint louis area.
Dobbs tire and auto
He was telling me one of their guys has done this on a few fords, and it is a known issue.
Plenty of spark and everything, but he says the timing is off.
where else could i take it?
A dealership?
These towing fees will start to add up.
this is a well established auto repair chain in the saint louis area.
Dobbs tire and auto
He was telling me one of their guys has done this on a few fords, and it is a known issue.
Plenty of spark and everything, but he says the timing is off.
where else could i take it?
A dealership?
These towing fees will start to add up.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
It is an interference engine, if the timing was off due to the timing chains there would be a possibility of engine damage. Was the cam position sensor checked? It is an easy part to replace, you can do it your self.
Been around these message boards for the Mark VIII for at least 7 years, like i said first i heard of it. I think i heard of a broken chain once.
It is an interference engine, if the timing was off due to the timing chains there would be a possibility of engine damage. Was the cam position sensor checked? It is an easy part to replace, you can do it your self.
Been around these message boards for the Mark VIII for at least 7 years, like i said first i heard of it. I think i heard of a broken chain once.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
well i talked to the guy some more, and he is going to look at the camshaft sensor. I hope to god you are right, and the more i read, the more it sounds like you are.
I dont think there would be much damage, because i never drove the car when it would have broke. I had the rotors resurfaced on the front brakes. When i went to get the car, it would not start. So possibly they hit something under there to screw that sensor up, that is my hope right now.....
He said he is not sure if it is the timing chain or whatever, he just feels strongly that it is something timing related, and to discover what it is he needs to take the timing cover off and look. That process he quoted me as 21 man hours because it is all in the back of the car. Now i read that the timing system is scheduled to be looked at every 60k or so, but i am well beyond warranty. I see all sorts of stuff on how to fix it, but i have 0 clue as to the real cost of such work.
i appreciate all the ideas and help. this is really stressful. The weather is only nice enough for me to ride my motorcycle for a bit longer
;(
well i talked to the guy some more, and he is going to look at the camshaft sensor. I hope to god you are right, and the more i read, the more it sounds like you are.
I dont think there would be much damage, because i never drove the car when it would have broke. I had the rotors resurfaced on the front brakes. When i went to get the car, it would not start. So possibly they hit something under there to screw that sensor up, that is my hope right now.....
He said he is not sure if it is the timing chain or whatever, he just feels strongly that it is something timing related, and to discover what it is he needs to take the timing cover off and look. That process he quoted me as 21 man hours because it is all in the back of the car. Now i read that the timing system is scheduled to be looked at every 60k or so, but i am well beyond warranty. I see all sorts of stuff on how to fix it, but i have 0 clue as to the real cost of such work.
i appreciate all the ideas and help. this is really stressful. The weather is only nice enough for me to ride my motorcycle for a bit longer
;(
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
There are 4 timing chains and they are in front of the engine. I don't have my DVD manual in front of me, but I believe the other sensor related to timing is the crank position sensors, but I believe that it is used after the car is started. It is harder to get to, but it is no where near 21 hours to replace.
There are 4 timing chains and they are in front of the engine. I don't have my DVD manual in front of me, but I believe the other sensor related to timing is the crank position sensors, but I believe that it is used after the car is started. It is harder to get to, but it is no where near 21 hours to replace.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
Thats is what I told him in another thread. There is no way any repair should cost this kind of money. My money is on the crank sensor underneath the AC compressor. Try to wiggle it around so that you can start the engine. That is what I did when it happened to my mark, and I have not had a problem since (3 months ago).
Thats is what I told him in another thread. There is no way any repair should cost this kind of money. My money is on the crank sensor underneath the AC compressor. Try to wiggle it around so that you can start the engine. That is what I did when it happened to my mark, and I have not had a problem since (3 months ago).
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
Do you have fuel pressure? Since the car was on the rack getting rotors, the fuel lines could have been pinched, or a connection disabled in the wheelwell to cause the no start condition. I would double check whatever the brake people touched before tearing the motor apart. Check all your fuses too.
Some info from my 1998 Ford shop manual:
Your initial engine timing is set at 10+-2 degrees BTDC and is not adjustable. The crankshaft position sensor (CKP) tells the PCM two things.
1) the position of the crankshaft in 10-degree increments
2) crankshaft speed (rpm)
The PCM uses this info to determine ignition coil turn on/off, and for misfire detection
The camshaft position sensor (CMP):
1) is a variable reluctance sensor
2) is triggered by the high point mark on the LH exhaust camshaft
3) provides camshaft rotational location info to PCM
The PCM uses the CMP signal for ignition coils fire sequencing. The PCM also uses the CMP signal for fuel injector synchronization.
Do you have fuel pressure? Since the car was on the rack getting rotors, the fuel lines could have been pinched, or a connection disabled in the wheelwell to cause the no start condition. I would double check whatever the brake people touched before tearing the motor apart. Check all your fuses too.
Some info from my 1998 Ford shop manual:
Your initial engine timing is set at 10+-2 degrees BTDC and is not adjustable. The crankshaft position sensor (CKP) tells the PCM two things.
1) the position of the crankshaft in 10-degree increments
2) crankshaft speed (rpm)
The PCM uses this info to determine ignition coil turn on/off, and for misfire detection
The camshaft position sensor (CMP):
1) is a variable reluctance sensor
2) is triggered by the high point mark on the LH exhaust camshaft
3) provides camshaft rotational location info to PCM
The PCM uses the CMP signal for ignition coils fire sequencing. The PCM also uses the CMP signal for fuel injector synchronization.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
Here is a picture of the tensioners, and four chains. They are located in the front of the motor, closest to your front bumper. Everything in the front part of the motor - belts, hoses, power steering pump, etc. were removed, including the chain cover, to expose the chains in this picture. The picture is courtesy of Craig - BlackIceLSC. Thanks Craig!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/Blackicelsc/DSC00059.jpg
Here is a picture of the tensioners, and four chains. They are located in the front of the motor, closest to your front bumper. Everything in the front part of the motor - belts, hoses, power steering pump, etc. were removed, including the chain cover, to expose the chains in this picture. The picture is courtesy of Craig - BlackIceLSC. Thanks Craig!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/Blackicelsc/DSC00059.jpg
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
If your timing chain tensioner was bad your motor would be shot. If it cranked it would make nasty clunking noises.
Timing specs mentioned above are for ignition timing. Timing chains are for valve timing. Two different things.
If it's cranking and it has spark, see if it has fuel. Connect a fuel pressure gauge to the schraeder valve on the fuel rail and turn the ignition on, you should see approx. 40 psi at idle.
If you have fuel and spark and it cranks but will not start, it is probably an issue with a sensor, most likely the crankshaft sensor. Crank position sensors are relatively common failures and will cause a no-start condition.
The cam position sensor usually will not cause a no start condition. with a bad cam sensor the car may stall at throttle tip-in or have other driveability problems when first started.
If your timing chain tensioner was bad your motor would be shot. If it cranked it would make nasty clunking noises.
Timing specs mentioned above are for ignition timing. Timing chains are for valve timing. Two different things.
If it's cranking and it has spark, see if it has fuel. Connect a fuel pressure gauge to the schraeder valve on the fuel rail and turn the ignition on, you should see approx. 40 psi at idle.
If you have fuel and spark and it cranks but will not start, it is probably an issue with a sensor, most likely the crankshaft sensor. Crank position sensors are relatively common failures and will cause a no-start condition.
The cam position sensor usually will not cause a no start condition. with a bad cam sensor the car may stall at throttle tip-in or have other driveability problems when first started.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
I called the place today and briefly discussed the fact the timing system is placed n the front of the engine. The guy reconsidered a few things and talked to his tech. I then pressured the reliability of their diagnosis. He said he would get with the tech and check some things out. Apparently one his has told him most of this, so being slightly embarassed, he ordered every possible test on the engine. After about an hour he calls back and says after careful inspection of the spark plugs, he noticed the piston chamber was flooded with gas. So they drained most of that, and floored the thing to set the fail-safe setting. Started right up, with a lil bot of back firing from all that gas.
It works and i am only out a few bucks for their initial diagnosis. I should give the guy my bill for all the Tums i had to buy the past few days.
How all the gas got in there....we are still not sure.
Any thoughts?
I called the place today and briefly discussed the fact the timing system is placed n the front of the engine. The guy reconsidered a few things and talked to his tech. I then pressured the reliability of their diagnosis. He said he would get with the tech and check some things out. Apparently one his has told him most of this, so being slightly embarassed, he ordered every possible test on the engine. After about an hour he calls back and says after careful inspection of the spark plugs, he noticed the piston chamber was flooded with gas. So they drained most of that, and floored the thing to set the fail-safe setting. Started right up, with a lil bot of back firing from all that gas.
It works and i am only out a few bucks for their initial diagnosis. I should give the guy my bill for all the Tums i had to buy the past few days.
How all the gas got in there....we are still not sure.
Any thoughts?
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
i'll keep this updated with any further developements...
i swear this place was my only beacon of hope. such fast responses too.
so far i have done the following work with just the help from these boards:
Rear Shock Mount
Blend Door
Blower Fan Connector
Front Air suspension
Heated seat diagnosis
Headlight polishing
and
this!
i musta saved a fortune.
i'll keep this updated with any further developements...
i swear this place was my only beacon of hope. such fast responses too.
so far i have done the following work with just the help from these boards:
Rear Shock Mount
Blend Door
Blower Fan Connector
Front Air suspension
Heated seat diagnosis
Headlight polishing
and
this!
i musta saved a fortune.
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
Sounds like you got your 20 bucks worth...congratulations!!
Bud Pytko
'97 LSC Silver Frost
'05 F250 SD CC PSD 4 X 4 AZ Beige
'94 Prowler 5th Wheel
http://myfilelocker.comcast.net/charlespytko/Lincoln/BudPytko97LSC.JPG
Sounds like you got your 20 bucks worth...congratulations!!
Bud Pytko
'97 LSC Silver Frost
'05 F250 SD CC PSD 4 X 4 AZ Beige
'94 Prowler 5th Wheel
http://myfilelocker.comcast.net/charlespytko/Lincoln/BudPytko97LSC.JPG
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
this is a well established auto repair chain in the saint louis area.Dobbs tire and autoHe was telling me one of their guys has done this on a few fords, and it is a known issue.Plenty of spark and everything, but he says the timing is off.where else could i take it?A dealership? These towing fees will start to add up.
[/div]
Hey man... I live about 1.5 hours north of you. E-mail me when you could meet me down there And I'll come take a look at it.
msouthwell@casscomm.com
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
this is a well established auto repair chain in the saint louis area.Dobbs tire and autoHe was telling me one of their guys has done this on a few fords, and it is a known issue.Plenty of spark and everything, but he says the timing is off.where else could i take it?A dealership? These towing fees will start to add up.
[/div]
Hey man... I live about 1.5 hours north of you. E-mail me when you could meet me down there And I'll come take a look at it.
msouthwell@casscomm.com
BlackIceLSC
Registered
RE: Timing Chain Tensioner. They told me $4500 to get my car running again...
man, I am sorry I missed this thread. I would have asked you for their number, and walked them through the steps to get it fired up.
alas, we may have ben your beacon of hope, but I assure you, this so-called 'reputable" shop shouldnt touch your car anymore.
as far as the cylinder being full of fuel...bah! they cranked it so many times, it probably 'wet' the cylinder.
I'd check the fuel lines on the passenger rocker panel, to see if they crushed the 'return' line(common) as well as install a set of new plugs.
NEXT time it happens(which it might, if it was a crank position sensor), check here...
after a few days of driving, if all feels normal, take it out for a WOT beat session. These cars love to be worked after they are sick.
man, I am sorry I missed this thread. I would have asked you for their number, and walked them through the steps to get it fired up.
alas, we may have ben your beacon of hope, but I assure you, this so-called 'reputable" shop shouldnt touch your car anymore.
as far as the cylinder being full of fuel...bah! they cranked it so many times, it probably 'wet' the cylinder.
I'd check the fuel lines on the passenger rocker panel, to see if they crushed the 'return' line(common) as well as install a set of new plugs.
NEXT time it happens(which it might, if it was a crank position sensor), check here...
after a few days of driving, if all feels normal, take it out for a WOT beat session. These cars love to be worked after they are sick.