Transmission / Warranty Questions

L

lawdog1

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I purchased a 99' Continental about one month ago with 61K on it. I purchased it from a GM dealership and was given a GMAC limited warranty of 3 months/3,000 miles on the powertrain.
The second week I had the car, I was traveling on the highway (70-75mph) and was about 40 miles out when the HUD shows "Check Transmission". I reset the HUD and it showed the same warning 2 more times within the next 20 miles at which time I arrived at my destination.
Later that day, on my way home, at about 30 miles out, the HUD advised to check the transmission and the "Service Engine Soon" light came on. When I arrive home, I went to the parts store and found the fault code was (P1744) TCC Solenoid - Circuit Range/Perf.
I took the vehicle back to the dealer and was sent to a Lincoln dealership. They cleared the code and drove it 12 miles in town, then told me to pick it up because they could not duplicate the fault. While there, I found the car had been purchased from them new and all of the service performed there. Their records showed the transmission had been repaired at 44,000 miles for fault codes (C1742-C1743) TCC solenoid failed. They replaced the solenoid. At 52,000 miles, the car was back in thier shop for a torque converter clutch performance code (unknown code). They flushed it, installed new fluid and additives.
Took the vehicle on another road trip (on the highway @ 70-75) and HUD popped up "Check Transmission" again. The "Service Engine Soon" light came on again as well. Went to the parts store and was given fault code (P1744) Manufacturer Control Transmission.
Went back to the same Lincoln dealership and told them to diagnose it or I was done with them. They advised me the tranny was losing pressure internally, thus causing fault codes. They recommended a rebuild.
I went for a second opinion at a transmission shop and it was diagnosed as losing line pressure inside the transmission which was causing the overdrive to engage/disengage at highway speed.
In the interm, I also noticed the car surging at 40-50 mph in town.
Transmission shop contacted GMAC Warranty and they sent a rep out. Rep rode with tranny employee and said there was nothing wrong with the car. Told them to call him back if they could duplicate the fault. Also insinuated I was lying.
I left the rep a message to contact me personally.
That's where I'm at - have a few questions:

1) Is it my choice of who repairs the transmission?
2) If they drag this out, are they still responsible since the problem occurred well under the warranty?
3) How do I light a fire under their asses?


I'm not looking to gouge anyone, I just want them to make it right. I LOVE my Lincoln!

I will keep you updated! Lookin' for a dealers perspective as well (Frankie X).
 
Well, Dan, third party warranties are always a nightmare to deal with. Unless you're willing to fight, they'll try to set all the rules.

First, GMAC will try to specify where the repair will be done, but you DO have the right to demand a competent repair; this does not mean a GM tech who's never touched a Ford, it does not mean Uncle Bob's Trannys'r'Us because he's cheap, and it does not mean a used transmission (I have seen this waaay too many times).

The Lincoln dealership you went to had no obligation to let you see the previous owner's service history. The fact that they did tells me they intend to help you resolve this, and they DID give you their diagnosis (which is right on the money, by the way, more on that later).

Did the service department give you a written diagnosis? You'll want that for GMAC.

Of course the warranty rep found nothing wrong! He's not on your side. His job is to save GMAC money.

Here's your tactics:
Two different shops came to the same conclusion. Get written diagnoses.
Can't duplicate it??
When the message center says "Check Transmission" and/or the MIL ("Check Engine") warnings appear, take a picture.
Get the vehicle scanned and get a printout made or photograph the scan tool displaying the code. Lord knows I've had to do that enough times for a**hole third party reps!

The final piece of ammo: Ford issued a TSB specifically for this problem, relating to solenoid malfunctions or INTERNAL FLUID PRESSURE LEAKS!!!

Here's a copy'n'paste of the text portion. The Lincoln dealership will provide you with a proper copy for GMAC.

--------
TSB 03-12-3
TRANSAXLE - TORQUE CONVERTER CLUTCH NOT ENGAGING AND/OR DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTC) P0741 OR P1744

Publication Date: June 10, 2003

FORD: 1996-2003 SABLE, TAURUS, WINDSTAR
LINCOLN: 1996-2002 CONTINENTAL


Article 98-6-5 is being republished in its entirety to update the model years and to identify additional contributors to the DTC's being set.

ISSUE:
Torque converter clutch not engaging when commanded and/or Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) P0741 or P1744 stored in memory

ACTION:
Use a scan tool (NGS/WDS) to monitor PID's to help determine steps to take for service. Refer to the following Diagnostic Procedure for details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

The torque converter clutch may not engage if one or more of the following conditions exist:

Stuck converter regulator valve
Stuck solenoid regulator valve
Stuck bypass clutch control valve
Stuck pressure failsafe valve
Pump bore ring groove depth incorrect
Worn pump shaft or damaged pump shaft seals
Pump shaft internal sleeve loose (rattles)
Turbine shaft seals damaged or missing
Incorrect Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) solenoid
TCC solenoid mechanically stuck or electrically inop
Damaged internal wiring harness
Incorrect gear ratio (wrong sprockets)
Damaged or worn stator support
Worn torque converter hub bushing
Torque converter clutch worn or damaged

*Use a scan tool (NGS/WDS) to monitor the following PID's:
TCC = Commanded duty cycle for TCC solenoid
TCCMACT = Actual slip across the TCC, measured in RPM
RPM = Actual engine speed
TSS_SRC = Actual turbine shaft speed
TCCRAT = Speed/Gear ratio of torque converter/transaxle
NOTE: IF "TCCRAT" PID DATA IS INCORRECT, THE INCORRECT TRANSAXLE OR DRIVE & DRIVEN SPROCKETS HAVE BEEN INSTALLED IN THE VEHICLE.

For DTC P0741 and P1744, perform Pinpoint test "C" in Section 307-01 of the appropriate Taurus/Sable, Windstar or Continental Workshop Manual and refer to TCC Solenoid Resistance Chart (Figure 1) for correct TCC resistance.
Also refer to "Diagnosis by Symptom" Routines 240 and 340 in Section 307-01 of the appropriate Taurus/Sable, Windstar or Continental Workshop Manual.
*Remove lower pan of the transaxle and check for excessive debris in the pan.
*Remove the main control cover, main control and pump shaft.
*Check for pump shaft wear or damaged seals.
*Inspect the internal wiring harness for damage.
*Inspect and clean the main control and make sure all valves move freely. Specifically, converter regulator valve, solenoid regulator valve, bypass clutch control valve or pressure failsafe valve (refer to Figure 2 for AX4N and Figure 3 for AX4S).
*Measure depth of groove in the pump bore ring (Figure 4).
*If cause for condition has not yet been identified, remove the transaxle and inspect the outer surface of the stator support for damage (Figure 5).
*Inspect torque converter hub bushing for wear.
*Inspect turbine shaft seals.
To verify the condition has been corrected, the drive cycle must be performed at least five (5) times (for drive cycle procedure refer to the appropriate Workshop Manual Section 307-01). The PCM will not set a torque converter clutch code until it fails to engage five (5) consecutive times.

Warranty Status:
Information Only

--------

Good luck, and don't back down.

Remember, document everything. If GMAC wants to drag this out, be SURE to have dated work orders of the complaint that are clearly within the warranty period.

If you need to go further, this shows you some options:
http://www.foreignborn.com/self-help/car_buying/9-svc_contracts.htm#4
Quite often, just mentioning AUTOCAP (up here it's CANVAP) to the selling dealer changes attitudes!
 
Last edited:
Thanks Frankie! I knew you wouldn't let me down. I did get a written diagnosis from one of the shops and will contact the other on monday for one. I am off for another road trip tomorrow (3rd week in a row) to duplicate the problem again. I will photograph and video the warnings this time. I'm not going to take no for an answer. I'll keep you posted..................

lawdog1
 
The GMAC appraiser contacted me today. He said all he needed was for me to reproduce the fault, take it to a transmission shop, have the shop call him and show him the transmission code on thier scanner. He said he would authorise repairs at that time.

I drove the car 160 miles today and had the "CHECK TRANSMISSION" warning come up on the message center SIX times. It never activated the "SERVICE ENGINE SOON" light so probably didn't throw a code. :( I did take photos and video each time the warning appeared on the message center. I hope I'm on the right track.

What are the chances I will cause more problems with the transmission and the engine if I continue to drive, drive, drive until it throws a computer code?

I'll keep you posted!
 
Everything in the OBDII system is linked together enough that, if the "Check Transmission" warning came on, there will be transmission related codes in the memory.

Will there be further damage? ...hard to say, but, depending upon the severity of the internal leaks, chances are good you'll be wearing friction materials prematurely.
 
You guys are right, as usual, it did record a code (P1744 - TCC Solenoid Circuit Range / Perf). Thanks! Now it's off to the tranny shop.............................again.
 
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